Hi <br>Please don´t touch the dwm wm on grml. I use it, so give it a try.<br>Perhaps there is no need for fluxbox by myself ;-)<br>nice would see i3 wm manager instead.<br><br>leinex <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2010/12/15 greg <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bts@bts.grml.org">bts@bts.grml.org</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im"><br>
greg <<a href="mailto:gcschroed@yahoo.co.uk">gcschroed@yahoo.co.uk</a>> added the comment:<br>
<br>
</div>Thanks for the invitation to argue (and thank you and the devs for grml, btw) :)<br>
<br>
So based on the responses I have to base my argument on (1) _size_ occupied by<br>
the programs and (2) "too many", roughly that "10" options provides too many<br>
choices (3) many of the expendable wms are "not properly configured". Finally<br>
(4) some comments about the linked removal of software in your list.<br>
<br>
(1) program size<br>
----------------<br>
<br>
- : 12 kb<br>
evilwm --<br>
dwm --<br>
w9wm ---<br>
ratpoison -----------<br>
jwm -----------<br>
twm ------------<br>
wmii* -------------<br>
openbox* ------------------------<br>
awesome* --------------------------<br>
fvwm2 --------------------------------------------------------------<br>
pekwm ------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
fluxbox*<br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
The above is a graphic representation of the size of the installed binaries with<br>
the scale topmost. Now the real quantity of interest is of course the size of<br>
the binary, docs, dependencies as compressed and stored on the GRML iso. Some of<br>
the appropriate figures are provided in this thread but not for all the wms,<br>
however there is a correspondence and the real quanties make the case even<br>
stronger and I'll include it as an appendix.<br>
The "*" above marks those wms mooted for inclusion and basically shows the<br>
fallacious logic if program _size_ is the issue: "to save space let's remove<br>
thosethat occupy the least space and retain the largest non-tiling manager and<br>
two largest tiling managers". To re-phrase: "Let's save space by removing those<br>
wms that save the most space".<br>
<br>
(2) "too many"<br>
--------------<br>
Okay, let's just assume that "about 10" is "too many", based say on a one-to-one<br>
correspondence with our fingers and that "4" is a decent-sized number. Then of<br>
those 4 a user has a choice of 2 tiling and 2 non-tiling wms. So great? Not<br>
really. I don't really know what criteria were used to filter out those four wms<br>
but if there were any they could be better. For eg. a "user of text tools"<br>
usually has one problem: competing keybindings. Gnu screen overcomes this by<br>
having an escapable, configurable escape key, and so does ratpoison. The only<br>
other _general_ solution is to use a mouse and menus -- but this is the only<br>
type of wm presented amongst the 4 *wms -- a bit strange for a distro aimed at<br>
"users of text tools". Those of us who want to run X, a terminal multiplexer and<br>
still have _all_ our keybindings available for zsh, emacs, vim etc are left<br>
choiceless.<br>
Anyway, take another look at the chart above to see that "1" can be "too many"<br>
when that one is fluxbox and "3" "not too many" when the three are evilwm, dwm<br>
and w9wm.<br>
<br>
(3) wms "not properly configured"<br>
---------------------------------<br>
Here let me first say that I really like the default grml configuration for zsh,<br>
screen, vim etc. But generally, in the absence of "your" configuration files,<br>
and particularly for wms, it is better to have a vanilla configuration. Just<br>
swap the .emacs files of two hackers if you want proof.<br>
<br>
(4) linked software removal<br>
---------------------------<br>
ratmenu is a general menu that works well with ratpoison; it can be used with<br>
any window manager. Linking it to removal of ratpoison is the same as removing pd<br>
menu with dwm because it has a "d" in common.<br>
dwm-tools I think has now become suckless-tools and may be a requirement for<br>
wmii. dmenu may be included in that package and again it too is used by people<br>
who aren't necessarily running dwm. Other people (than me) will know better<br>
about the suckless software.<br>
<br>
Appendix (1) program size<br>
-------------------------<br>
Keep:<br>
fluxbox 1300<br>
fvwm2 746<br>
openbox 292<br>
<div class="im"> wm-ng (is just a simple wrapper script to start fluxbox with gkrellm and<br>
desktop icons)<br>
</div>Considered for removal:<br>
dwm 180 28<br>
evilwm 94 24<br>
fvwm 14700 746<br>
fvwm2-crystal 5104<br>
jwm 299 135<br>
pekwm 1253 792<br>
twm 397 149<br>
w9wm 127 36<br>
<div class="im">Further discuss keep/removal of:<br>
</div> awesome 2785 + 446 309<br>
rapoison 528 128<br>
wmii 401 159<br>
<br>
The first numeric column (provided by Mika) appears to be the appropriate size<br>
(in kb) while the the second numeric column is the size (in kb) of the installed<br>
binary (grml2009.10).<br>
<br>
----------<br>
assignedto: mika<br>
files: unnamed<br>
messages: 3334, 3337, 3400, 3401, 3407, 3408, 3409, 3410, 3411, 3452, 3453, 3454, 3455, 3456, 3457, 3458, 3459, 3460, 3461, 3462, 3471, 3472, 3473, 3476, 3477, 3479, 3480, 3631, 3634, 3635<br>
<div class="im">nosy: abe, mika, mru<br>
priority: wish<br>
</div>status: fixed-in-git<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">title: removal of window managers<br>
topic: grml-etc-core, release-stopper<br>
<br>
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